On Mon, Oct 31, 2005 at 08:27:30PM +0100, Manuel Kasper wrote:
>I realize that it's not exactly popular among you, but personally,
>I'd still like to use Java for the core. It's just the simplest
>C-like language, and also much safer than C/C++.
I'd argue that Limbo is the simplest C-like language. In second place, I'd
probably put D. In fact, I would argue that D is probably the best choice,
since it's compiled, safe, simple, and ABI compatible with C/C++ libs.
>I haven't actually run any tests with Perl or Python - maybe someone
>could implement a simple XML-RPC server and determine its RSS after a
>request just so we can get a rough idea of their memory requirements?
>I don't know about Python, but I assume that Perl can easily eat away
>several MBs as well.
I'll try to set up a test server with Perl. One thing to remember is that Perl
can easily act as a web server. It would be able to implement the WebGUI and
XML-RPC server in the same daemon, thereby lessening the memory constraints a
bit. It also supports threading. It would only have to fork to spawn a PHP
process (though I'm still leaning towards Template Toolkit if we go with
Like I mentioned earlier, Webmin, which is fairly bloated, runs on my system
in less then 4MB when it's idle and doesn't grow to more than 4.5MB when
answering a request.
>The most efficient solution, and also the most popular one after PHP
>(according to the survey) would be C. It's also the likely choice if
>we can't find any higher-level alternative that suits our needs.
The only problems that I have with C are that it's not OO (I don't strictly
have a problem with that, but I thought we were leaning towards OO for the
core) and that C developement tends to be slow compared with languages such as
Perl/Python/Ruby(/Erlang, which is aparantly great for this kind of
application, but it's not widely known).
>(although I haven't done much with it yet). OpenBSD's performance is
>still much lower than FreeBSD 4.x
It's been my understanding that OpenBSD's performance is worse than FreeBSD
5.x, but the only evidence I have at hand is a benchmark against FreeBSD 5.3.
Also, not to start a holy war, I've read stories of OpenBSD panicing fairly
often when used as a server... In fact, that's why DJB gave it up in favor of
FreeBSD (that's fairly significant, considering his reputation for security
>We'll have to do some prototyping to figure out
>more pros/cons and determine whether some of the proposed products
>are suitable at all. If anybody wants to help with that (i.e.
>evaluating programming languages/toolkits or operating systems for
>their suitability), let me know.
I've been meaning to throw together a basic framework in Perl to serve
web/XML-RPC, etc. I'd like to see the same things in Ruby/Python, but I don't
have the experience with them to set it up myself.
The more directives you issue to solve a problem,
the worse it gets.