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 From:  "Norman H. Azadian" <norman at azadian dot ch>
 To:  m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch
 Subject:  Re: [m0n0wall] 1.234 bug reports, please (May be off topic)
 Date:  Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:59:00 +0200
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by 
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
         Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance
         US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

There's nothing more consistent than a stopped clock.

Do you have any scripts in your bin directory?  Seen any passwords in 
/etc/passwd lately?  Why is cron spelled without the h, when it is short 
for chronograph?  Why do we persist in using the word "core" when we 
really mean RAM?  When was the last time you saw an actual TTY, 
terminal, or even CRT?  Yet unix has drivers for all of them.  We still 
have the lpr command, but no more line printers.  A mouse is a small 
furry rodent, not a hunk of plastic to be pushed around on your desk. 
There's no disk in an SSD.  The sticky bit long ago ceased to have 
anything to do with keeping a binary in core.  A computer bug is 
(nowadays) rather different than the garden-variety bug.  There's plenty 
of these inconsistencies in the biz, and nobody has a problem with them. 
  They're all wrong, but who cares?

The rip off that the disk manufacturers perpetrated happened years ago. 
  Some slick marketeer decided to start selling disks with MB = 1e6 
instead of 2**20.  If you looked hard enough you could often find the 
small print that told you what you were actually buying, but Joe Sixpack 
didn't have a clue.  The other manufacturers more or less had to join 
the race for the bottom.  The advantage was short-lived, but the 
long-term effect is that now nobody knows what an MB is.

And no, I don't consider it a rip-off that formatted disk capacity is 
less than raw capacity.  It is dubious though, when they sell 
pre-formatted USB sticks and MP3 devices by the raw capacity instead of 
what you're actually getting.

NHA
---
Norman H. Azadian   Taegerishalde 13   CH-3110 Muensingen   Switzerland
norman at azadian dot ch     tel: +41 31 721 7855      mobile: +41 77 204 1981


Quark IT - Hilton Travis wrote:
> Hi Norm,
> 
> The fact that something's been used for ages doesn't make it right.
> "Kilo", "mega" and so on are all defined terms meaning "1,000",
> "1,000,000" and so on.  Because someone decided that 1,024 was close
> enough to 1,000 doesn't mean the two are equivalent.
> 
> Another example of something plain wrong being used for ages, but this
> not making it right is that Microsoft Excel, using the 1900 date system,
> accounts for 29 days in February of 1900, which there definitely was not
> - Feb 1900 had 28 days as 1900 is not a leap year.  Just because Excel
> claims 1900 was a leap year does not make it a leap year.
> 
> I suppose you are now also going to claim that HDD manufacturers rip off
> their customers by stating the unformatted capacity instead of the
> formatted capacity?  Of course, the HDD manufacturer is again right here
> - the drive can take the number of bytes they state, and if the
> filesystem on the drive takes up space, then this is not the fault of
> the HDD manufacturer - and different filesystems take different space on
> HDDs, so who's formatted capacity should they claim?
> 
> --
> 
> http://blog.hiltontravis.com/
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hilton Travis                       Phone: +61 (0)7 3105 9101
> (Brisbane, Australia)               Phone: +61 (0)419 792 394
> Manager, Quark IT                   http://www.quarkit.com.au
>          Quark Group                http://www.quarkgroup.com.au
> 
>      Microsoft SBSC PAL (Australia) http://www.sbscpal.com/
> 
> War doesn't determine who is right.  War determines who is left.
> 
> This document and any attachments are for the intended recipient 
>   only.  It may contain confidential, privileged or copyright 
>      material which must not be disclosed or distributed.
> 
>                     Quark Group Pty. Ltd.
>       T/A Quark Automation, Quark AudioVisual, Quark IT
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Norman H. Azadian [mailto:norman at azadian dot ch]
>> Sent: Thursday, 28 August 2008 8:25 AM
>> To: m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch
>> Subject: Re: [m0n0wall] 1.234 bug reports, please (May be off topic)
>>
>> Sorry, I can't resist.
>>
>> Since, oh about the 1950's, a kilobyte has been 1024 bytes, and
>> megabytes and gigabytes and terabytes followed suit as they became
>> practical.  I don't know, or care, if the ISO standard came before or
>> after this.  This is the convention in the computer world since the
>> beginning of computer time.  A kilogram is 1000 grams, but a KB is
> 1024
>> bytes.  I know this sounds twisted and bizarre, but it has been so for
>> at least half a century.  For anyone who designs computer HW or SW, it
>> is perfectly obvious why this must be so.  Nobody else is qualified to
>> say anything about it.
>>
>> Computer jocks have never had a problem with this double-meaning of
> the
>> K,M,G,T,P,E multipliers.  The unwashed masses wouldn't either if the
>> disk Marketeers hadn't sown confusion in order to rip off their
>> customers.
>>
>> NHA
>> ---
>> Norman H. Azadian   Taegerishalde 13   CH-3110 Muensingen
> Switzerland
>> norman at azadian dot ch     tel: +41 31 721 7855      mobile: +41 77 204
> 1981
>>
>> Quark IT - Hilton Travis wrote:
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lee Sharp [mailto:leesharp at hal dash pc dot org]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 August 2008 10:05 AM
>>>>
>>>> Quark IT - Hilton Travis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Actually, a 16 MB file is 16,000,000 bytes in size whilst a 16 MiB
>>>> file
>>>>> is 16,777,216 bytes in size.  So when a Flash card manufacturer
>>> sells
>>>> a
>>>>> 16 MB card, it won't fit a 16 MiB file on it as there's not enough
>>>> room.
>>>>> Just like HDD manufacturers, Flash card manufacturers are using
> the
>>>>> nomenclature correctly whereas others (like, say, Manuel) are not.
>>>> ;)
>>>>
>>>> Depends on when you started.  The MB vs MiB thing was never an
> issue
>>> in
>>>> the old days.  Memory and HD space was in base 2. (Full Stop)  I
>>> forget
>>>> who first started the "Fake MB" but it was around 50meg drives, if
> I
>>>> remember right.  Now for people who have been around a while, 1 MB
>> is
>>>> 1024 kilobytes. (Full Stop)  Also, 1 GB is 1024 MB (1042*1024
>>>> kilobytes). Full stop.  Anything else is marketing BS that came
>> around
>>>> later, and the public bought into because no one was taught to
> count
>>> on
>>>> there fingers in binary.  (Doing that, you can do quite advanced
>> math
>>>> very fast on your fingers.  It freaks people out)  So, if anyone is
>>>> referring to a bit or a byte, and uses a multiplier of 1000, they
>> are
>>>> an
>>>> idiot or a marketer. (Redundant)  Yes, I know there is a whole "New
>>>> Standard" since 98 (yes I am old) but it has never really been
> used.
>>>> And consider the name; "mega binary byte."  A byte IS friggin
>> binary!
>>>> There is no such thing as a base 10 Byte!  (Breathe...  Calm
> down...
>>>> Count to 10... 1, 10, 11, 100, 101, 110, 111, 1000, 1001, 1010  OK,
>> I
>>>> am
>>>> under control.) It also legitimizes the bastardization of kB, MB,
>> and
>>>> GB
>>>> in a base 2 numbering system.  Switching bases in the same counting
>>>> system is asinine.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, one of my pet peevs.
>>>>
>>>> 			Lee
>>> Hi Lee,
>>>
>>> Actually, using ISO nomenclature, "mega" is 1,000,000 and "giga" is
>>> 1,000,000,000, so "megabyte" means "1,000,000,000 bytes".  This is
>>> simply the facts.  Whoever started using "megabyte" to mean
>> "1,048,576"
>>> was using a "fake MB" and was an "idiot" to use your terms.  ISO
>>> nomenclature is *the* standard nomenclature used worldwide, and they
>>> have stated that "mibi" is a binary multiplier and means 2^20 =
>>> 1,048,576, and so on.
>>>
>>> It is also one of my pet peeves that intelligent people in IT cannot
>>> comprehend this simple truth and keep using the incorrect
>> nomenclature.
>>> --
>>>
>>> http://blog.hiltontravis.com/
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Hilton Travis                       Phone: +61 (0)7 3105 9101
>>> (Brisbane, Australia)               Phone: +61 (0)419 792 394
>>> Manager, Quark IT                   http://www.quarkit.com.au
>>>          Quark Group                http://www.quarkgroup.com.au
>>>
>>>      Microsoft SBSC PAL (Australia) http://www.sbscpal.com/
>>>
>>> War doesn't determine who is right.  War determines who is left.
>>>
>>> This document and any attachments are for the intended recipient
>>>   only.  It may contain confidential, privileged or copyright
>>>      material which must not be disclosed or distributed.
>>>
>>>                     Quark Group Pty. Ltd.
>>>       T/A Quark Automation, Quark AudioVisual, Quark IT
>