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 From:  Richard Morrell <dick at dickmorrell dot com>
 To:  Mark Spieth <mspieth at neod dot net>
 Cc:  m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch
 Subject:  RE: [m0n0wall] Comparative Products to M0n0wall
 Date:  Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:09:46 +0000
However if you look at M0n0wall objectively what Manuel has achieved in a TINY 
image is a lot of features that corporates need. What would be cool is if 
people with install gui ability would tidy up the card allocation and also 
contribute help files. If it adds 800k to the size of the image and introduces 
concurrent versioning issues and language issues - thats good - it means the 
spread is wider as is acceptance and use.

To start supporting ISDN, DoV, CAPI and non CAPI devices, serial TTY modems, 
USB ADSL (and all the pain - you have NO idea how many nights I went without 
sleep working on USB ADSL with Fujitsu and US Robotics etc) is not on the 
roadmap. 

You have to have a statement of requirements and the fact is that there are 
plenty of decent RJ11 based ADSL modems that output ethernet to connect to M0n0 
but plenty of them have NAT'ing firewalls, IPSec capabilities and DHCP which 
then nullifies the point of having M0n0 in SME 5-20 user environments as well 
as more switched on home environments.

Put it this way when I invented SW there was one option in the UK for the web 
(two actually) dialup and ISDN - broadband was an idea - and hadn't been born. 

If I'd have been able to go get a router/gateway/wifi AP for $90 do you think 
I've had invented SW ?? No. It was a time and a place and therefore we captured 
a huge market sector without PR.

If anything comes of M0n0 it's an appreciation that we as individuals want 
choice and we want the opportunity to learn and to understand our needs at the 
network level without a dumb device. Thats a good thing imho.

Rant over - Richard resumes his role as head of security at Britains largest 
ISP and smiles meakly at all the ZoneAlarm users.

Dick

Quoting Mark Spieth <mspieth at neod dot net>:

> Which all comes back to my original statement.
> 
> the real issue is does monowall fulfill your security needs for the
> price you pay for it.
> 
> Obviously if you can't connect it to the internet then it probably
> doesn't meet your security needs. Of course m0n0wall is not the perfect
> solution for everyone, as in the case with most software/Hardware/OS
> issues. I guess my point was rather than look at features off all
> similar products, one should properly ascertain what security points
> need to be addressed and see if M0n0wall meets that list. 
> 
> All too many times I see people buy things off a Feature List, and then
> only to discover that either they never use most of the features or that
> the added features provide many additional potential security holes. 
> 
> As far as the SW patch list, I was making a generalization and I
> apologize for any confusion or mis-information.
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hilton Travis [mailto:Hilton at QuarkAV dot com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:38 AM
> To: m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch
> Subject: RE: [m0n0wall] Comparative Products to M0n0wall
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Actually, approximately 50% of the released SmoothWall patches have been
> patches to fix broken patches that weren't tested properly before being
> unleashed on the public.  Check the release notes and you'll see what I
> mean.
> 
> Aside from this, SmoothWall/IPCop have significant differences to
> m0n0wall in their target market.  How many Tel$tra BigPond Cable users -
> for example - can use m0n0wall (none) versus SmoothWall (all)?  And this
> is an Ethernet connection.  I'll admit that this is one thing I'm
> seriously considering adding to m0n0wall myself, somehow, when I get the
> time to look at the m0n0c0de a bit m0re.
> 
> Both of these products have ther place.  As do the other products out
> there (except anything with a "Linksys" sticker on it).  I use and
> recommend both m0n0wall and SmoothWall where appropriate.  And Cisco
> boxes, and Checkpoint solutions, etc.  :)
> 
> Regards,
> HiltonT
> 
> On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 23:00, Mark Spieth wrote:
> > I agree, I like IDS however IDS really should be done on a separate
> box
> > as well as squid 1/2 the smoothwall/IPCOP patches are do to addon
> > software they put on their firewalls.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Donald Deacon [mailto:donald at 501 dot co dot za] 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:57 AM
> > To: m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch
> > Subject: Re: [m0n0wall] Comparative Products to M0n0wall
> > 
> > I agree! M0n0wall has some really cool features like creating aliases
> of
> > Networks/Host names. This makes changes quick and easy, especially to
> > Rules
> > and Nat setups. I use a CDROM based PC. No hard drive to worry about
> > crashing also less power usage. If there are any problems, you
> reboot!I
> > looked at Smoothwall and besides IDS there was nothing that benefited
> > us!
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Mark Spieth" <mspieth at neod dot net>
> > To: <m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:49 PM
> > Subject: RE: [m0n0wall] Comparative Products to M0n0wall
> > 
> > 
> > I understand your dilemma, however what other products offer is
> > irrelevant, the real issue is does monowall fulfill your security
> needs
> > for the price you pay for it. There are other free products out there
> > such as IPcop for a prebuilt system or shorewall if you want to build
> > your own. The added security of the FreeBSD based system and ease of
> > upgrade especially if you are running a standard PC with a CDROM is
> what
> > is important.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andy Prasetya [mailto:andyprasetya at netscape dot net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:48 AM
> > To: m0n0wall at lists dot m0n0 dot ch
> > Subject: [m0n0wall] Comparative Products to M0n0wall
> > 
> > Dear M0n0wall Community,
> > Recently, my supervisor asked me to develop a comparative
> > chart/information about M0n0wall and other "peer-class/quality"
> > products. Does anybody can help me to find some few (at least 3 or 4
> > products) which can be compared to a M0n0wall box, in terms of their
> > features?
> > 
> > Thank you very much.
> > andyprasetya at netscape dot net
> > 
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> > ---
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hilton Travis                   Phone: +61-(0)7-3343-3889
> Manager, Quark AudioVisual      Phone: +61-(0)419-792-394
>          Quark Computers         http://www.QuarkAV.com/
> (Brisbane, Australia)            http://www.QuarkAV.net/
> 
> Open Source Projects:		http://www.ares-desktop.org/
> 				http://www.mamboband.org/
> 
> Non Linear Video Editing Solutions & Digital Audio Workstations
>  Network Administration, SmoothWall Firewalls, NOD32 AntiVirus
>   Conference and Seminar AudioVisual Production and Recording
> 
> War doesn't determine who is right. War determines who is left.
> 
> 
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